Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby wendy » 28 Feb 2009, 15:11

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This was in last nights paper.
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in Lo

Postby wendy » 28 Feb 2009, 15:12

My notes from the event


Individual budgets can benefit carers, research shows

Barbara Keeley MP hosted the event and started by saying that often when carers visit her for advice they are surprised to learn that there is help for them as well as the person who they care for.
She stressed that health checks for carers need to be more widely known about in GP surgeries.

Gordon Conochie, the Policy and Parliamentary Officer was the first person to hold a joint post between Crossroads schemes and Princess Royal Trust Carers’ Centres, the two biggest providers of services for carers in the UK and work together at a national level to promote policies and guidance that will support carers.
He said  we have to ask what it is that we are expecting of carers, and whether it is realistic. But it seems that we are not asking the right people, we are not asking the carers.

Dr Philippa Russel spoke about how today we are living in challenging times and carers do not want to be seen as burdens on the state, especially when carers have so much to give after reaching the age of 60.
Family must always come first but sadly she came across a situation when the young carer just did not trust the people who were being sent in to care for a loved one.
The Market has to be stimulated and a new creativity has to be found as we look at new ways of doing things.
Dr Russel gave her personal example about the difficulties carers face when having to fill in forms for DLA when she has to do so for her son.
She added that Individual budgets do work, giving carers more freedom, we are all travelling the same road but we must continue to  go forward and not backwards.

Phil Hope MP the Carer Services Minister, said that carers are hero’s and it is important that the Government listens to their needs and not what it is expected what they need.

Individual budgets give people more control over their lives.  Already the Government has launched the Carers Choice website and in the summer the 24 hour carers phone help line will commence.   The Government is not waiting for the Green Paper and is already making payments available for respite care.  A social care policy needs to be fit for the 21st century.
He gave an example of how a carer was able to buy a greenhouse because that was the way in which he was able to get some respite.
He said we have an increasing aging population and people with learning difficulties are living longer, so changes have to be made to benefit people.

Someone said that carers today are sometimes caring for parents, children and also have a job and this needs to be recognized so the correct help will be provided.


I was able to speak with lots of MP’s  who remembered me, many carers from across the country and carer charity workers which gave me the opportunity to say as best I could some of the difficulties that carers face every day.

Dr Ian Gibson MP reminded me about his idea of getting all the Carer charities together and he is still intent to do this.

Now we can look forward to the outcome of these Independent Budgets giving a better quality of lif and a more positive future for carers.
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in Lo

Postby wendy » 28 Feb 2009, 15:16

Individual budgets can benefit carers, research shows
Carer Services Minister, Phil Hope, has today announced the findings of a new report which suggests carers can benefit from individual budgets. However it also highlights that the assessment process for service users’ individual budgets sometimes overlooks the needs of carers.

Individual budgets are an alternative way of paying for social care. Instead of local authorities buying services on behalf of a carer, that person is given control of their own budget and can direct how it is spent, allowing the care package to be tailored to their needs.

The research, 'The Individual Budgets Pilot Projects: Impacts and Outcomes for Carers' found that carers are more able to “engage in activities of their choice” when using individual budgets.

Carers identified the benefits of individual budgets as including greater flexibility, choice and control. This positively affected how they spent their time and improved the quality of life of the service user.

But the research also revealed that the assessment process for service users’ individual budgets can sometimes overlook carers' needs. Local authority officers also had mixed views about paying carers from a person’s individual budget.

Mr Hope said: "Carers have told me that their lives improved beyond all recognition when their loved one got choice and control over their own care. What is clear is that individual budgets need to be carefully implemented.

"This research, combined with the excellent report from The Princess Royal Trust for Carers and Crossroads Caring for Carers, will help local authorities to help more people and carers experience the benefits of individual budgets.”

Director of Policy and Communications at The Princess Royal Trust for Carers, Alex Fox, welcomed the findings, but warned: "Individual budgets need to be implemented properly to allow carers greater involvement in the decisions which affect their lives.

"However some councils are neglecting to do this. Where carers feel isolated and under-valued, care plans for very vulnerable people can break down. Neither families, nor the social care system’s budgets can afford this.

"Our 'Putting People First Without Putting Carers Second' report, launched today, examines the challenges local councils and health trusts face in making 'personalisation' a reality for carers alongside those they care for. It also highlights a range of solutions that are already in place to meet those challenges."
http://www.carers.org/news/individual-b ... 10,NW.html
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby wendy » 02 Mar 2009, 10:35

I have added something which I feel is important to my notes.
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby wendy » 11 Mar 2009, 16:08

A photo taken by the Trust of Dr Chris Michell, who went with me, Dr Ian Gibson MP, and myself at the Launch.

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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in Lo

Postby sandy4 » 11 Mar 2009, 16:57

I had had arguments with a carer about public perception of carers and their role; she said the public are well aware.  If carers themselves are unknowing of help there how the %%%% is the public well aware of anything in regard to carers. 


Well done Wendy; keep up the good work.  33900 ro%%% va====4 va654 tha22222
glad to have been lead here

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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in Lo

Postby ians1 » 11 Mar 2009, 20:10

Its good that you were able to attend Wendy, well done.

I am a little concerned over the statement from them

But the research also revealed that the assessment process for service users’ individual budgets can sometimes overlook carers' needs. Local authority officers also had mixed views about paying carers from a person’s individual budget.


What concerns me is that what we are seeing here may become the thin end of a very large wedge.  What I mean by that is that in effect the benefits that were available as of right in law may become eroded to the point that with integration of the Single Working Age Benefit, all disability and Carer related benefits, if lumped into LA administered "Individual Budgets" they may all become Means Tested whereas they are not at the moment.

Its not clear at this moment in time what guarantees, if any, will be put in place to keep disability benefits like a recipients DLA for instance, separate from the "Individual Budget". 

The talk of "paying Carers from an individual's budget" also detracts from the idea of benefits being paid directly to Carers.

The jury is still out to my mind.

Why not just pay us the true going rate like Foster Carers?


ian
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby wendy » 11 Mar 2009, 20:13

I wish you had been there when Norman Lamb MP asked my opinion about Individual budgets.

I did voice my concerns to him but I fear I did not say it as well as you have just written.
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby wendy » 10 Apr 2009, 10:36

Norfolk NHS has been granted pilot status for this scheme.
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby sandy4 » 27 Jul 2009, 12:34

All ; I don't like posting direct; I can't spell and am a slow thinker but!

An I B would I suggest suit ones where the supplier; I E local area selects one care provider and that C P is P$$$ poor and fails to deliver good prompt care.  With I B one could look around and avoid such C Ps; going for say a small local one or one couple like I saw not long ago in our local paper.  This I say should be worth more; an I B; if one lived in a rural area with the difficuties that that surely has in finding a care supplier or a couple and the distance that could make costs higher. 

I have just posted to Ian; and all chillers; but say he lived in the highlands isolated by miles of wonderfull country but a long way from help and care providers should they not get more than we who live 2 miles from our C P? 
glad to have been lead here

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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby wendy » 30 Oct 2011, 19:59

Do you think some of my concerns have come true?
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby maureenho » 30 Oct 2011, 22:53

I don't think these individual budgets are at all thought out, they don't allow higher charges for bank holiday's in the most part or if a carer have an emergency and it's nearly 3 years on now.

But the research also revealed that the assessment process for service users’ individual budgets can sometimes overlook carers' needs.
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in Lo

Postby kenm » 31 Oct 2011, 07:46

The hourly rate given for care falls £5 per hour short of what agencies charge, and if you employ your own PAs it does not cover holidays or sick leave.
The result is personal budgets or direct payments leave you only getting about 2/3 of the hours of care you are assessed as needing.
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in Lo

Postby snowqueen » 18 Nov 2011, 07:57

I have great concerns about the new Personal Budgets.  At first I thought great, my son will have more freedom to do what he wants.  Sadly I don't feel that is really going to be the case at all.

At present he attends a private Day Centre two days a week for which he is funded.  From there he is able to access college courses, receive much needed physiotherapy, learn new things, meet people so that he isn't so isolated as he lives at home, go on holidays etc etc.  He has only recently started and absolutely loves it.  I knew (or thought I knew) that he would have a review after six months to ensure he was still enjoying the placement.

In conversation yesterday with Social Services I was asked if I thought the placement was on a long term basis, to which I said yes, of course I considered it long term as my son is really happy there and it enables him to make choices about things he wants to do.  Social Services told me that no, it would likely be that after six months the Panel would not agree further funding as policy is now for disabled people to be out in the community (I wondered why there were so many more wheelchairs in shopping centres these days), not building based.  How utterly ridiculous I find that as it is taking away his right to a choice, not giving him any rights.  The look of utter devastation on his face when I told him he may not be able to stay at the Day Centre would have made a grown man cry. It's absolutely fine if someone wants to be out in the community, but what if they're very happy where they are.  It seems that that means nothing to the anonymous people who make policies on our behalf.  And you still have to get your choices passed by the anonymous Panel who rule our lives.

It was explained to me that Personal Budgets were coming in next year and when I enquired if he would perhaps then be able to use his Budget to pay for a place at the Centre, was again told probably not, as policy is ........ etc etc.  So obviously Personal Budget, at least in our case, looks like it will mean choice as long our son  chooses something that fits in with current policy, which is really no choice at all as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby kenm » 18 Nov 2011, 09:42

When direct payments were first proposed it was always stressed that it would only be one of the choices we would have. That has turned out to be a lie, as it is the only choice now and Personal budgets will be another con trick just like direct payments.

Yes we have choices of what we do with it-----so long as it is THEIR choice, and we will never get the full package we have been assessed as needing.

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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in Lo

Postby wendy » 18 Nov 2011, 09:51

I heard of someone getting £25,000 after a carers assessment,  yes that is correct £25,000

They were told they could have up to three holidays abroad a year.

This was for a family caring for someone with a mental health problem.

It appears to me that the system is not working, it is either ridiculous, like handing out all this money, or it causes problems to people.
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in Lo

Postby snowqueen » 18 Nov 2011, 10:01

Ken,

I was beginning to think it was just me, but obviously it isn't.  Don't know about you but I have been advised by several people, including healthcare professionals, not to touch Direct Payments or Personal Budget with a barge pole.

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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby kenm » 18 Nov 2011, 10:15

I don't have much choice--withoout them I would not be able to employ my own PAs and would have to accept the agencies the Council contract out to---They are totally useless and it would mean Sheila would have to get up and go to bed when the agency decided, which could be --up at anytime between 7am and lunch time--and would be put to bed at 6 pm. That is no choice and is no life for her.
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in Lo

Postby maureenho » 18 Nov 2011, 11:38

There is no choice if you need help with the person you care for, direct payments are gradually being replaced with the new title personal budgets whether you employ an individual or buy through an agency.

[quote="snowqueen"]
I have been advised by several people, including healthcare professionals, not to touch Direct Payments or Personal Budget with a barge pole.
Lyn
[/quote]

Wendy £25,000 is ludicrous if they have been told they can use it for holidays, if it was £25,000 PA to pay for care then I could understand the amount
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby wendy » 18 Nov 2011, 11:46

I expect most of the money was used to pay for care, but they were told they could have holidays abroad.

But this was after a carers assessment, so I don't know for sure re the care bit.
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby snowqueen » 18 Nov 2011, 11:52

Whilst talking about Personal Budgets with Social Services yesterday I said that I would not be prepared to administer my son's Budget when he gets it.  I was told not to worry, as there would be someone in the office to administer it for him.  I await with baited breath whether this turns out to be true or not.

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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in Lo

Postby kenm » 18 Nov 2011, 11:57

Lyn it may be true--BUT- they will probably be paid out of the personal budget!!!!!
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby maureenho » 18 Nov 2011, 11:59

I don't know what part of the country you live Lyn but here in Norfolk we have Norfolk Coalition of Disabled People (NCODP)  who do all admin work, I've used them for a few years and they are very good, it might be an idea to look into something like that where you are.
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby snowqueen » 18 Nov 2011, 14:34

Ken,

I daresay they would be paid out of his Budget - and no doubt at a highly inflated rate! 

Maureen,

Thank you very much for the information, I will definitely look for somewhere local should it prove necessary

The thing that worries me very much about taking on the Personal Budget, which is why I said I won't, is that my son is severely physically disabled so it will involve various things like equpment, carers, college courses, "entertainment", day centre etc etc  I just feel it is too much to just give me money and expect me to deal with all that when I only have a few hours a week when I'm not acting as a carer.  I suppose I'll just have to wait until he has his assessment and then see what happens.
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Re: Individual budgets can benefit carers- the meeting in London

Postby maureenho » 18 Nov 2011, 19:43

Good luck with it Lyn and let us know how it goes.

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